1st Lead U - Leadership Development
This podcast, now in Season 3, is dedicated to self-development, self-awareness, and learning to lead oneself so listeners can lead others well. If someone cannot lead themselves well, it will be difficult for them to be an effective leader of others. This podcast will help listeners understand what it means to 1st Lead U and build confidence in themselves and their leadership ability. Personal Growth Coach John Ballinger has spent 35 years developing the knowledge and material he shares with individuals, business owners, and leaders from a variety of areas.
1st Lead U - Leadership Development
Clint Powell: Comfort is the Enemy of Growth - Ep 308
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Discipline doesn't come naturally. In our fast-paced lives, we rarely pause to create intentional disciplines for ourselves—especially when comfort feels so appealing. But as entrepreneur and professional podcaster Clint Powell reveals in this thought-provoking conversation, "Comfort is the enemy of growth."
Drawing from his experiences as a business coach, podcast producer, and former rugby player, Powell shares profound insights about the leadership crisis facing America today. He challenges conventional thinking about what makes effective leaders, noting how COVID-19 exposed which leaders had substance and which were merely projecting an image. "All foam and no beer," an expression used regularly by his grandmother, Powell explains, how the pandemic pulled back the curtain on leadership authenticity.
One of the most dangerous traps for established leaders? What Powell calls "the success trap." Once we believe we've "made it," we often abandon the very habits and disciplines that brought us success in the first place. This mindset problem, combined with dismissive phrases like "yeah, but" and "I've tried that before," creates what Powell describes as mental rooms with no doors—places where growth becomes impossible.
Perhaps most provocatively, Powell suggests that society has narrowly defined leadership as something that happens primarily in business settings. When asked which pillar of society—family, church, government, or business—currently demonstrates the strongest leadership, his answer might surprise you. He argues that business is struggling with "more earnest effort" to fill the leadership vacuum than other institutions, though all are facing significant challenges.
Whether you're leading a family, a church community, a business, or simply focused on leading yourself more effectively, this episode offers refreshing perspectives on how intentional, one-on-one relationships form the foundation of genuine influence. After all, leadership isn't about authority—it's about influence. The only question is whether you're influencing intentionally and for good.
It's hard to discipline yourself, to become disciplined In society. In our human nature we're not good at creating our own disciplines a lot of time, especially when it comes to being disciplined to do something.
Announcer:Welcome to First Lead you, a podcast dedicated to building leaders, expanding their capacity, improving their self-awareness through emotional intelligence and developing deeper understanding of selfless leadership.
John Ballinger:Hello America and welcome to First Lead U where we believe selfless leadership is essential. America is suffering a leadership crisis. Self-awareness and emotional intelligence is the key to developing selfless leaders. Now here is personal growth coach John Ballinger. Hello leaders, welcome to First Lead U. My name is John Ballinger and I'm here with my trusted co-host, mr Douglas Ford. Hello Douglas, hello John.
Douglas Ford:Good afternoon to you. How are you? I'm doing great. It's a beautiful day outside and it's uh, we've got some special surprises today.
John Ballinger:We do have a special surprise today in studio. Uh, we've got a. Uh, you know, jennifer asked me this and I can say this. She said how did you meet Clint? Oh no, I had to stop for a second. I'm like huh. And then she really got, I think, a little bit suspicious, like how long have you known? I can't. I think before he was, maybe after he'd served his time as a serial killer, maybe I don't know, but honestly I can't remember I know I met you at this.
Clint Powell:I think it was due to podcasting. It was for podcasting, because you helped us start of by and for the people yeah, but how? Did we connect on that? Was it through Monica?
Douglas Ford:No, no, I actually connected y'all with her. Yeah, I can't remember, no, so let's go ahead and tell everybody who we're talking, to Get them in the loop.
John Ballinger:Don everybody who we're talking to get them in the loop. Don't let me rub off on you. No, we're talking to who's who's turned into a good friend of mine, clint powell, who does, uh, several podcasts locally one I am fortunate to be a co-host on called oath and pledge, about veterans. But clint has several podcasts he does and he's become, uh, a professional podcaster and helping people that want to get a message out and understands how to kind of coordinate the process. And we just recently had the first podcast-a-thon in Chattanooga, which is for the older people out there that remember the Jerry Lewis telethon. It was very similar to that. We were raising money for an organization that Clint is very partial to, and when he talked about doing it, I'm like man, that's a heck of an idea. And it just grew, didn't it?
Clint Powell:Clint, it went really well. I was surprised. I ended up having like 40 guests and, to your point, it was kind of inspired by the Jerry Lewis telethon to raise money. So I just had guests coming through, one right after the other, some a little longer, some, and then sometimes we'd have drop-bys, surprise guest visits. We ended up hitting our goal or actually surpassed our goal. We had almost $11,000 for white cap and I said something to somebody that I had one person have to cancel because I had a family kind of an emergency. Normally you plan for more guests than you need because people are going to cancel and back out, zero people canceled. So actually from four in the morning on a Friday to four in the morning on Saturday, everyone showed up, which was great because you need the energy, but also it was a testament, I thought, to the cause. So yeah, it was a really fun experience.
John Ballinger:And people brought you food and stuff.
Clint Powell:I was listen. I had so much God's chicken brought into me with Chick-fil-A. I had hamburgers Jennifer brings it Me and Roddy were on there and she's bringing us donuts in the morning. I'm like this is I have to do one of these every Friday. I live like a King.
John Ballinger:Yeah, but it's been, it's been good. He's interviewed us on some of his podcasts Douglas and I on his podcast, because podcasts you almost you got to get comfortable with it, I mean, like we were talking about. It needs to be conversational. It doesn't need to be, you know, like you're stuffy and you know and we've got. I feel like we've gotten better each season with just being conversational about leadership and what's going on in America.
Clint Powell:Yeah, I think sometimes when people start podcasting, we default to what we know. So we've seen TV scripted stuff so much, the how are you today? I am fine. So what do you do for a living? We've seen so much of that. But you know, when the, when podcasts hit the scene, we actually kind of got a, got a. It was okay to hear people talk. It was like, oh, you can just have a conversation and if it's interesting, people will stay tuned in. And so most people who start podcasting start off very scripted, which is fine, because you got to find your feet underneath, you got to get your wheels going right, and so, yeah, podcasting to me and that's one of the things I always think about leadership is you got to know your story, how to tell your story, how to influence and persuade people. But all that usually is from storytelling and and maybe not always actually quote telling the story.
John Ballinger:But you have to know your story right, and that's what podcasting is yeah, experiences, uh, can be a cruel thing and it can be a great thing, uh uh, dependent on how you uh, how you react to it. So so, clint, tell us a little about yourself.
Clint Powell:Wow, I was telling y'all before this is like a Russian nesting doll. I don't know which version of me to start it. I I've owned several small businesses. I owned my first small business when I was 24. I started a commercial cleaning company with me and a buddy, and the only reason I was 25, I sold it to my partner when I got married about three or four years later. So I've always had an entrepreneurial you know, want to work for myself bug. Then I did go into corporate sales, to radio for about 15 years.
Clint Powell:Outside of that, though, I've been self-employed and it's usually in outside the commercial cleaning. It's been an advertising and marketing. I owned a billboard company for about four years until we sold it to Lamar, and then I owned an ad agency, got a divorce about eight years ago and about that same time I started podcasting, and a few years after that I started. I brought one element of my marketing company back, and that is the business coaching, because I tell people. I cannot tell you what to do, but I can tell you what not to do. So the actual website is failure avoidance coachcom, because I can. I can help you avoid failure if you'll just listen to all the stuff that I did wrong yeah, and so is podcasting.
John Ballinger:You know, is that your thing right now?
Clint Powell:I do half my money is through podcasting. The other half is through a small business coaching or sales coaching, Cause a lot of sales reps don't have hard managers or or, um, good management leadership, and so they they need somebody to kind of say am I doing it right, Am I doing it wrong? What could I?
John Ballinger:do better. Yeah, do they listen to you.
Clint Powell:So half of it is through podcasting. The other half I do is through. You know, here's what I say. They listened to me as much as I listened to everybody else that told me about their mistakes, so nothing shocks me. I listened sometimes, and a lot of times I didn't. I had to touch the stove when it was hot to find out.
John Ballinger:Right yeah, so have have you in in your podcast world and in the business coaching world. Have you noticed a difference in leadership between pre COVID and post COVID? You?
Clint Powell:know, when I saw the, I knew we were going to talk about pre and post COVID. I really did not give that much thought until the I guess the podcast world brought that out of me, and here's what I mean by that. I was just working. Leadership is something good. Leadership is something you know it when you see it, when you're experiencing it. Right, I always think it's about influence. To me, leadership is influencing people. The ability to influence people is, to me, leadership that kind of. They're interchangeable and you can't influence others unless you influence yourself first. Right, that's kind of my theory.
Clint Powell:So if you look back on COVID, I think COVID did for leadership what it did for everything else. It showed us where the foam and where the beer was right. It pulled the curtain back and in some areas you realize that some companies are built on foundational principles, some are not. Some people are just social media influencers and some are actual influencers and I think, post-covid people. Just now there's so much white noise about leadership and the like. They just don't, they just don't care. They don't care what you say, they just want to. They'll know it when they see it and if you're not showing it like tangible actions, they just have no bandwidth for it. They're just like we're just not putting up with it anymore.
Clint Powell:That's why I've heard you and Douglas talk about the great resignation. That's what that kind of was COVID kind of showed them. This is all. How is my job not necessary? But that job is. How come they get to work from home? You mean, we don't have to have eight meetings, we could have done all the. You don't have enough money to. It's just all of these little things started floating to the surface and people were like I'm surrounded by incompetence and so I might as well join the ranks. I think that's what happened.
John Ballinger:Yeah, so is this an accurate statement? Today's leader that truly wants to lead well has a more difficult time influencing the team because of the way that they've been led in the past.
Clint Powell:A hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, it's um. That's like everything else. Why is it hard to trust in one relationship? If you've been burnt in another one, it's because there's a trust been broken. Right? I assumed we were on the same page and we weren't. So if I've had bad leadership which is what COVID showed a lot of folks, I've not been led Well, um, I've not been valued. If that's the case, then all of a sudden, whoever comes in next, whoever wants to air quote, lead me the next time around, they're going to have a harder job of it because my, my BS sniffer is on and I'm I'm going to be much more cynical with you than maybe you deserve, right.
John Ballinger:So I'm going to I'm going to take a quick exit, because we we haven't talked about this, but you know, we talk about four pillars that hold society up. Of those four pillars, which are the family, church, government and business, which one has the best leadership right now?
Clint Powell:Okay, hold on a second. Say those four again. This is called stalling for an answer. Lacey, it's a podcast technique.
John Ballinger:It's very professional, Family, church, government and business.
Clint Powell:It's a trick question, my chair is going to flip backwards into water or something I'm going to say. I don't think it's family, I don't think it's church at all. I think government is so divisive right now. Half the people will say yes now, but not four years ago, ten years ago, but right now Half the people will say yes now, but not four years ago. 10 years ago, but not now.
Clint Powell:I think business is struggling with more earnest effort than the others. I think business sees the vacuum there and I think they're trying to be the one to fill the vacuum the fastest. I don't think they're there, but I think they're the ones that actually are acknowledging we have a leadership problem. I think the other three are trying to fix it. One's trying to fix it through laws and restrictions and mandates. The other is trying to fix it through just turn your heads up. We've always done it this way before. And then the family is, as I think is a lagging indicator of the church and the government. Anyway, you know what I'm saying. Saying so, I think business has got a did you practice that response with him, douglas?
Douglas Ford:no, but it was pretty good it was.
John Ballinger:It was darn good that's why I stalled, so I stalled and you might get invited back sometime he just needed five seconds to come up with that hold a second.
Clint Powell:You kicked me under the table, john. Did I get it right?
John Ballinger:there is so much truth to what you said, though, even from we're dealing with it, because, you know, when I come into the studio, somehow we're going to talk about leadership. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. We're going to start out here and all of a sudden, do you like?
Clint Powell:lasagna. Let me tell you about lasagna and leadership. You know they both start with L, but let's focus on the leadership. Clint, I'm like what? How did we?
Clint Powell:get there, john, we did a podcast, the other day and I think it was pretty well planned what we were going to talk about, but we ended up talking about leadership. It's just well, but it's what you guys swim in all the time. And I talk about other things because I have like seven other podcasts, so I will throw I will. I will let you off the hook on that a little bit. I always end up focusing on the family stuff with my other friends who are a little more politically on the other side of different issues, because I think a lot of the core issues we have in schools and in our churches are because we were trying to replace what the family unit should look like through things that those institutions are not built to handle.
Clint Powell:My government's not supposed to be a dad, the church is not supposed to be my God, and all of a sudden it's naturally. We're trying to have this vacuum of, okay, where's dad? Where's dad and mom, where's God? And the world has just sucked all that away and said well, instead of that, have you tried light beer? And people are like, no, that's not, I want the real thing.
John Ballinger:Is that Bud Light?
Clint Powell:You're just trying to get canceled now. I like a good old Irish beer, sir.
John Ballinger:I'm going to throw a grenade in the middle of the conversation.
Clint Powell:This is how I affect podcasts.
John Ballinger:Yeah, what would you say based on your coaching that you're doing in business right now, because all those businesses have a leader or an owner inside of it, what do you think the biggest challenge you have with connecting with that leader?
Clint Powell:Hmm, well, I saw this one again too. So this is different than the struggles. I want to make sure that that we get to this other question, cause there's one question that's in my wheelhouse and it's the. You know, the couple of mindset mistakes sales reps and business owners have. But as far as connecting me personally with them, like on how to, how to get my message across, um, I would across, um.
Clint Powell:I would say everyone says everyone, a hundred percent of the people say they, everybody should be coachable. I say it until john starts coaching me and then all of a sudden I'm like well, douglas needs more coaching, I think. And then I do. I don't want it. Coaching is painful and and it's not because I'm smart, it's because I ask questions. All coaching do. I don't want it. Coaching is painful, and it's not because I'm smart, it's because I ask questions. All coaching does. If you don't mind me just explaining my version of coaching, all coaching does is holds up a mirror or a window and if you ask the right questions, it cleans off a mirror so you can see yourself, or it wipes off the window so you can see the world with more accurate perspective. And what we love is for people to clean off the windows. What we hate is for people to clean off the mirror.
Clint Powell:So when I try to connect with people, the two or three times I've been let go with not bad intention. Just I was fired for cause. Basically, even though it's a contract thing, it's because I was. I was actually following up with what they said they wanted to do and at some point they said we keep talking about the same things and I'm like well, let's change the goals. What's the new goals? Well, I don't want new goals. Okay, well, I hate to say this. Then I got to keep asking the same questions and so it's not going to fly. So the reason I don't connect with a lot of the people is because no one wants to be coached up into the point of being uncomfortable, if that makes sense.
John Ballinger:And me too. Did you coach him on that too, yeah?
Douglas Ford:He's been listening to our podcast. You must have sent him, are y'all?
Clint Powell:starting a podcast. I thought I was the first guest. What Congratulations, guys.
John Ballinger:Episode one.
Clint Powell:Well, you might want to get somebody on quickly for number two there.
John Ballinger:We're going to take a break and as soon as we come back, we're going to continue. We've got the spotlight on Clint right now. Now we're going to drop water on his nose. We're really going to get down and dirty on some questions.
Douglas Ford:Hello First Lead Union listeners, douglas Ford here. I want to take just a few seconds during this break to say thank you for spending a few moments with us as we discuss the challenges and opportunities of being a leader. We hope that in every episode you find some bit of information that will help you on your own personal leadership journey. In order to reach more people and to improve our positioning on all the podcasting and social media platforms, it's important that you subscribe to our podcast on your favorite podcasting platform, like Apple, spotify or any other platform where you listen to First Lead you. We would really appreciate you clicking on the subscribe button to help us reach more people and expand the message of First Lead you. And please take time to visit the First Lead you website. That's the number one S-T, the word lead and the letter Ucom Firstleadyoucom. Number one S-T, the word lead and the letter Ucom. I hope you have a great day as you continue to learn to first lead you. Welcome back to First League U. Today we are talking to a special guest.
Douglas Ford:Clint Powell is on the podcast with us today and we've been talking to him and we've had quite the interesting journey, as we've talked about leadership pre and post-COVID. He is a small business coach and we've talked about opportunities that he takes to connect with small business owners and also with salespeople that he works with as part of his coaching business. And Clint, one of the things I'd like to understand a little bit more is just just your leadership journey. Like we just talked a good bit about you know life and some things that were going on as we were off there, but from a leadership journey Like we just talked a good bit about you know life and some things that were going on as we were off there, but from a leadership journey, where did you kind of first recognize like things have got to be different? Huh, wow.
Clint Powell:First of all, I don't and this is I think I'm sitting on a podcast surrounded by two guys who are much more educated and probably much more well-practiced and being intentional about your leadership. So some of the stuff I'm saying is going to come from me just doing just random thoughts and doing it wrong. I think we're all leaders, we just don't know it, and so I personally, because that means when I say the word influence earlier in the podcast, I am influencing people all the time. It's just am I. Is it for the good purposes? Is it bad purposes? I'm used as the bad example or the good example, so we do influence people. So I think sometimes to your podcast name. Most of us never take it intentional. I don't lead me first, and so I think and I was telling John this beforehand we move in and out of good practices when it comes to leadership, just like everything else. Sometimes I'm eating better, sometimes I'm more intentional with my prayer, sometimes I'm more intentional with my leadership. So if you look at my leadership journey, this is going to sound weird.
Clint Powell:I did not actually even think about what a leader was until I became a dad and a husband and I didn't call it leadership. I called it became a dad and a husband and and and I didn't call it leadership, I called it being a dad and a husband. I never connected that. I grew up in a Christian home. My dad is one of the best dads I've ever he's he's the best dad I know. He's one of my good friends. He did a great job. He is a leader, but we didn't use leadership in that world. We use respect and father and dad and friend right. I didn't connect the words leadership and husband, or leadership and dad till it was probably a little too late in those journeys to realize. And sometimes you look back on that and I realized, oh, I did it right without even knowing it. I'd been trained and was raised well enough to do the job. But the gaps and where I failed was 100% attributable to me, not connecting intentional leadership with the role I had.
Douglas Ford:Does that make sense? Absolutely, and I think that's the key to it is the intentional part. You make a great point in that and we talk about that a good bit on First Lead you about. You know you've got to be intentional or disciplined, or whatever word you want to use, about following that journey, because it doesn't just happen there. Like I said, there's a lot of things you acquire in life that can be beneficial and useful for you and get you a good bit down the road, but it only takes you so far, and then you have to be intentional about I'm going to continue to develop that. I'm going to continue to pursue that in a way that allows me to have more influence from a positive standpoint.
Clint Powell:Well, looking back on it with my dad. I keep using him as an example. Looking back on it, he was 100% leading me, he was being a leader, but we never had those conversations. It's not a slam on him. Now that we're in the middle of the conversation. What's really odd most of the men I know if you say the word leadership, they immediately default to business. Very few of us default to family. That was my mistake. When we say leadership to church, talking about the pillars, we always think of the pastor. Very few of us think of what our role is. What am I supposed to be leading inside the church? So again, I think we've done a poor job as a society of spreading leadership outside of business. It's there. We just don't actually have not done a good job of pointing and saying that is leadership over there. That's not just being a good pastor and a good preacher, that's leadership. That's not being just a good dad and a husband, that's leadership. We call them separate things, but when done well, it's all. It's stemming from the roots of leadership.
Douglas Ford:Oh, absolutely. I think for too long we've identified leadership and authority as the same thing, yep, and it's not at all, because you can have authority to do something, like you have an authoritative role in a company, an organization that you're responsible for doing certain things, but that doesn't mean that you're leading in any way, shape or form. You just have the authority and the responsibility to do something.
Clint Powell:Yeah, well, my dad's going to maybe call me up after this one. He gave me two options as growing up, I was going to do what he told me to because I trusted his. We didn't call it leadership. He would say love and respect me. Respect is part of leadership, right? Because later, as I grew, he used more explanatory words. But or because you fear me. I can be an authoritarian figure in your life or I can be somebody you follow because you trust and love me. Either one is fine with me, buddy, I can be either one you need me to be. I would suggest following the leader on this one or doing it because you respect me. Because, again, we didn't tie those words together, but many times Clint had to test the other way. So I guess to circle back. So you have a place to jump off to your next pivot. Here I first had a real big awakening of what leadership was based off family.
John Ballinger:You played rugby? Yeah, for about four, four and a half years. Yeah, and that's a football with no pads.
Clint Powell:Yeah, kind of it's it's. The rules are completely different, but yes, it's a lot of hitting and tackling.
John Ballinger:Yeah, and, and most, most people would say, rugby players are hardheaded. Yes, absolutely Right yeah. And Uh, yes, absolutely Right yeah.
Douglas Ford:And and uh, would that be literally and figuratively?
Clint Powell:for your hardheaded for a while, literally until you're not, and then you become a fan.
John Ballinger:But rugby players are a different breed of people, wouldn't you say that then? Then, uh, even a football person, yeah Right. And so I made this statement recently on LinkedIn. It's hard to discipline yourself, to become disciplined, right, just in society and our human nature. We're not good at creating our own disciplines a lot of time, especially when it comes to being disciplined to do something.
Clint Powell:Well, if you think about it, it goes back to those mirrors. Do you have anybody holding things up? Because we don't know where our blind spots are. We just don't. We get busy. So if you pull back and take that, you're not in leadership roles, right, and you're not doing a podcast on leadership.
Clint Powell:Most of us and I'll say men, because I can relate to that more, of course, but most men get busy. We're raising the family, we've got to go to work, I've got to be at the ballgame, I've got to make sure the trash is out. Change da, da, da, da, da. We're tasked, I'm checking the boxes.
Clint Powell:So a lot of times we just don't take that intentional moment, and a lot of, as you, until you get older and start realizing you should do things intentional, we just don't slow down long enough to go. Where are my gaps when, where am I not disciplined at? And so what happens? We either get, you know, comfortable or we get in routines, and so that keeps us. That momentum starts building and that's where it gets hard.
Clint Powell:I think a lot of men a 100% want to be more disciplined. We all want to be Jocko, you know, and that the Jocko's business is discipline. That's his business. If your business is making widgets, you've got to orchestrate that into your life, and if you get too air quote busy, you'll just run right by those blind spots. Man, I think most people want to be disciplined. We just get too comfortable. Comfort is the enemy of growth. It just is there's. Yeah, preach, think about it. Everything's got to break to grow. The seeds got to break, the ground's got to break. The clouds got to break to grow. The seeds got to break, the ground's got to break, the clouds got to break everything. The farmer's got to break the back. Everything has to break to grow something.
John Ballinger:In your, in your leadership journey, as well as just let's take the podcast, the people on your podcast. What do you think are some of the greatest weaknesses you see?
Clint Powell:So let me see if I give you the answer that fits your question. So, and if I've pivoted too much, bring me back, cause I want to make sure I answer what you want me to answer the two mindsets I see in coaching but I also see this through podcasting, because coaching and podcasting is a lot of the same thing answering questions and having conversations right, the two things that I hear that get in our way the most, or there's actually three. Two are kind of related. One is the success trap. Success is the killer of success. I wrote an article but I've been preaching. You talk about leadership, I talk about success. Success is the death of success. It just is. If you want to be unsuccessful in life, think that you are a success because you stopped doing every single thing that got you there. I've experienced this multiple times in my life because I'm an idiot. It's just the way it is. Yeah, you're right, I'm doing. What's the old story? It's between Wrigley's gum and it could have been made up, but I hope it's real between Wrigley's gum and, like Boeing or whatever, the CEOs are taking a trip and they're sitting up front and the guy from Boeing looks at Wrigley's and says, hey, why are you still spending hundreds of millions in advertising? You own like 70% of the candy gum market. And he looks at Boeing and says how high are we? He goes 30,000 feet said turn off the engines. If you stop doing what got you there, you won't stay there, and success is one of the things that I see across the board that just kill us.
Clint Powell:The second are these two comments, and what kills me is I say them all the time. I hear myself saying it, the yeah, but and I've tried that before. If you find I tell people that I work with, if you find yourself saying that a bunch, you are the problem. You've built a room with no doors, you're dismissing every small thing that's going to take you from this to this. I want to get to this next level.
Clint Powell:And so people start giving you advice and you go oh, yeah, but, yeah, but that's not who I am. I'm not a morning person. Oh, I hate to read. I'm just too busy, yeah, but I'm too a morning person. Oh, I hate to read. I'm just too busy, yeah, but I'm too busy. Yeah, I've tried that before. And I go. But did you really? Did you slide all chips in the middle and go for broke? Or did you do just enough up to your comfort zone where you could check the box and go? Yes, I tried that. It didn't work for me, okay.
Clint Powell:So I look at people at some point in time work. This thing over here doesn't work, that someone else suggested. You've just developed a cube and you're in the middle of it and there's zero way out. How do you get to the next room? So when you say the things that I see, that are the biggest flaws when I'm talking to people, whether it's podcasting or coaching is yeah, buts, and I've tried that before. And then the other one is that success trap. That one's the biggest one I've. I've watched. I've watched success tear down almost everybody that's been successful around there's another one.
John Ballinger:I heard uh uh, former police, uh chief, david roddy, said in a leadership conference we did the used to's, he, he's got, he's, he's got a good story about the use. Well, used to this and used to that.
Clint Powell:That's a Baptist thing, by the way. Oh yeah, are you kidding me? We've never done we've. We've always done it this way, before you know, in the past.
John Ballinger:Is that where?
Clint Powell:what, what? A hundred percent.
John Ballinger:Yeah, A good friend of mine said, uh, um there he said you know that 67th book in the Bible that we all talk about, that we're all proficient at, Of course. There's 66 books in the Bible the Book of Opinions, oh, yeah, and mine's way better than your book.
Clint Powell:I've read my book a lot Real quick. I want to say something about rugby. I don't want to go too far down that rabbit hole but I just did. I got a phone call that they needed a last minute speaker at about 60 folks from high school and their parents and I use rugby as a leadership analogy through that whole thing. So there's a whole. There is a whole thing I do for, for for groups, especially young men, about rugby and boxing and leadership and it's really cool that you brought that up because the analogies if anybody goes studies rugby and our boxing there's so many takeaways on leadership from that they're unbelievable.
John Ballinger:How about that? Yeah, um, so we talked about weaknesses. What about strengths? What strengths are needed today in the lead, given all that's going on? Cause I think we can agree that society's in a's in kind of a peril right now. It's divided, everybody's kind of on their own island, and the church is fragile, families are fragile, businesses are laying off, and there's just a lot going on. What do leaders need to lean in on from a discipline standpoint so that they can get their teams through need?
Clint Powell:to lean in on from a discipline standpoint so that they can get their teams through. So, from a discipline standpoint, this is the problem where I actually, when I listen to y'all's podcast, I listen to learn how to fix this problem, Because in society it's almost kind of like everybody says they want to be coached until they're coached. In society we say we want things that we really don't want. So I want leadership, I want, so I want leadership, I want transparency, I want authenticity until we get it. And all of a sudden I learned that my leader air quote is not perfect. He doesn't live up, or she doesn't live up, to my morals, or being authentic means they have to have a hard conversation with who? Me. Our leadership is setting boundaries that I may not be used to, and then all of a sudden, we, the people, don't like it. I don't. This is where I would. I'm not disagreeing with you. I don't know how y'all solve this problem, and it's up to you too, by the way. I put the burden. I deem you in charge of this. Move forward and prosper. I knight you both.
Clint Powell:But I don't know how you convince people that who say we want leadership, how to accept leadership in a world where I have to be a nuclear expert today, a foreign domestic, a foreign policy expert tomorrow, a vaccine expert next week and I'm way too busy telling my neighbor how they're probably going to hell. And I'm not and I'm morally better because I've got a blue chip or you've got a red chip. Yet I want leadership. Nobody's leading your message of first lead you. If it doesn't get accepted and falls on deaf ears.
Clint Powell:I don't know how we accept leadership when we can't recognize it. And the problem with it is whenever we see it. It looks foreign to us. When someone does what they say they're going to do, when someone fails us because they're not perfect, when someone imposes boundaries, when someone sits down with Douglas and says hey, I've got to have a hard conversation with you, not because I don't like you, but because I care about you. If we're getting that, it looks hateful, it looks mean, it looks like you don't have patience and not kindness and you're not merciful. So I don't know how you get to good leadership, because I will doubt that many people won't leadership anymore. I don't know if I said that in the correct way or not.
Douglas Ford:Yeah, and I'm going to steal John's line because this is what he. I think the key difference in that is trust. Right, if you have that hard conversation with me and I trust you, and I trust that you're having it because you care about me, then I accept that a lot more than if I don't trust you and you're trying to impose like, oh, I care about you, I don't trust that you care about me. So now I take that a whole different way.
Clint Powell:So this is a great Plinko chip, right? So now I'm able to answer your original question, john, better because of that. So I would say I agree with that. That means one of the things that leaders need to do is have more one-on-one, real conversations, instead of trusting that stupid phone and Zoom meetings and emails and newsletters and speaking to 5,000 people. Leadership cannot be I don't think it can be built to the masses, but it's one at a time that you have to establish it. John doesn't know the reason I'm saying hard things to John out of concern. If I'm standing in front of 600 people and I've never talked to John really on a personal level, that does come across as predatory. But if I say something to John one-on-one, then John can judge it based off that environment.
John Ballinger:Yeah, I would say to that Douglas knows, yeah, it does, and I'm going to tell you why. I know it works because one of the things that we coach our leaders to do is actually have a personal relationship, not not like go over their house every day with their, with their leaders, just just start. And so we had one company had 27 leaders for this. This one leader had 27 leaders for this. This one leader, he had 27 people in leaders and we said spend one and a half hour a year, just one and a half hour. Take them out to lunch, go to dinner with them and don't talk about business, just find out who they are as a as a person and create a relationship with them so that they know that you care about them and their family. Yeah, and we called that going into this company a really, really big company creating a culture of care from a leadership standpoint, to the people, because one of the things that people don't why people don't trust leaders is because they don't think leaders care about them.
Clint Powell:Well, if you think about this, I was writing down some stuff as you were talking. Everybody wants and I'm going to refer to the world nowadays. This couldn't sound older Back in my day well, the world we live in now I keep saying the word influencer. There's two types of influencers the authentic influencer and the ones I only need likes and content so I can then charge you to buy my widget TV you know t-shirt which, by the way, I've got merch if anybody wants. Uh, for my podcast. I say that because everybody wants to influence, but what? To what end? To what means influence for the sake of influence is is empty. That's the all foam part. That's my grandmother. You say all foam and no beer, right? Then there's the influence one-on-one parts. That's that's true influence. That's the true influence of I'm influencing this person in front of me.
Clint Powell:And the best example of this and this is the part where you get to do editing and cut this out if you don't like it, but in order to make personal introductions Jesus had 12. He didn't meet a thousand people one-on-one all the time. He spoke to people, right? I've met him, you've met him. Maybe I don't know. You've listened to people. I've met him, you've met him, maybe I don't know. Listen, people may have met him, but in order to make introductions, he got to know 12 men really, really, really well and influenced them one-on-one on a daily basis. So they then could go meet people one-on-one and build trust between that one person they were meeting and say, oh and by the way, you may want to meet this guy too, and that's the. That's the example right there. Uh, y'all are looking at each other, I just ruined the podcast.
Clint Powell:This is how you get uninvited to a podcast. This may be a shelved podcast?
John Ballinger:No, it's, we're probably going over on our time, but I really don't care right now because this is, uh, this is important. I struggle with, uh somebody that's told me personally that you're a leader of leaders and that sounds so just almost arrogant, but he, he spoke into my life and said you need to, you need to like, you need to find your 12 or 15 and, personally, Right, but why did that bother you?
Clint Powell:I don't understand, and what I'm about to say is not to step on your ego. I'm not trying to deflate a balloon, but you're not the only one that's a leader of leaders. There's thousands of leaders. Nick Saban led his coaches. He didn't. That frustrates me a little bit. A president has his cabinet. You're supposed to have leaders of leaders and then those leaders become leaders of leaders.
John Ballinger:That's the ultimate pyramid scheme. I can tell you why I struggle with it because you've been in a room with veterans before and there is a I don't know if it's something that happens in basic training, in income, I don't know where it happens at but you do not self promote, Um, and so my struggle personally with somebody saying that I'm like that sounds so arrogant when the reality is I know one-on-one I can develop somebody. I know that.
Clint Powell:So I understand, I hear what you're sayingone I can develop somebody. I know that. So I hear what you're saying and I agree with it. So I can't relate to what that is as a veteran or being in the military, but I'm going to assume it's not different to what I'm about to say Leadership when it's presented. What you want is a culture where the leaders then step up and take it Right. I don't think you can. I don't think I can. We can force leadership on people, but that's just forcing a role or authority. That's not forcing. You can't force leadership and that's what you deal with all the time is people who are leaders who shouldn't be or who haven't been trained.
Clint Powell:I submit that in a right culture military, or when businesses run well, families run well, when governments run well, when leadership opportunities present themselves, natural leaders accept the role, not for self-granitizing reasons, but for efficiency. They can do the job. That's what they're supposed to do. When somebody comes through my front door in the middle of the night with a family, we don't sit around and talk about who's going to go do it. It's a reaction. I'm the one built for that. So I'll go assume the responsibility. I think it sounds like a simple example. Extrapolate that to complicated things. Somebody walks in a room with a problem. Douglas may be the guy that goes oh, that's me. Not because I'm an egomaniac, but because I know I can fix that problem. I can lead that group. Does that make sense? And so if you're in a room full of leaders and a problem comes up, the leader of leaders is the one that goes. I got it With these 12 guys. I can handle this.
John Ballinger:I don't know if that makes sense. No, but you, you gave me some really uh in in the leadership journey. You have light bulb moments that happen and you don't know they're going to happen, and I had a light bulb moment today. So thank you very much.
Clint Powell:Oh well, broken clocks right Twice a day, buddy so. I'm glad I can, you could be here for one of my broken moments. That's fantastic.
John Ballinger:Uh now. So I truly appreciate you coming in here, clint really do.
Clint Powell:It's been fun.
John Ballinger:Yeah, uh and uh. We hope that the audience, uh, has learned some things like I've. I tell the audience a lot. I never stopped developing myself as a leader, and I never want somebody to pour into my life and help me be a better leader, and so I want to leave this like I've been leaving it at the end of our podcast every week. Now is remember in order to lead your team, well, you must first lead. Thanks everyone, we'll see you next time.
