1st Lead U - Leadership Development
This podcast, now in Season 3, is dedicated to self-development, self-awareness, and learning to lead oneself so listeners can lead others well. If someone cannot lead themselves well, it will be difficult for them to be an effective leader of others. This podcast will help listeners understand what it means to 1st Lead U and build confidence in themselves and their leadership ability. Personal Growth Coach John Ballinger has spent 35 years developing the knowledge and material he shares with individuals, business owners, and leaders from a variety of areas.
1st Lead U - Leadership Development
The Cop: Balancing Authority and Leadership - CHART - Ep 307
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The second episode in our CHARTing a New Path to Leadership series explores the "Cop" role – one of our four essential C's of leadership alongside Coach, Commander, and Counselor.
The misuse of authority is one of leadership's most destructive pitfalls. In this revealing episode of 1st Lead U, John Ballinger and Douglas Ford tackle the "Cop" leadership style.
• Leaders who over use the "cop mentality" often create fear instead of respect
• A balanced cop role means ensuring accountability and upholding standards, not intimidation
• Positive cop leadership involves: setting clear expectations, being fair and consistent, having constructive conversations, tracking metrics, and modeling integrity
• Each leadership style has a "bright side" and a "dark side" – aim to operate from the positive aspects
We've all felt that moment of tension when police lights flash behind us while driving. Similarly, when leaders operate primarily from an enforcement mindset, their team members experience that same anxiety whenever they approach. "Your people shouldn't be jumpy when you come around," Ballinger warns. "They shouldn't act like you just flipped the blue lights on them."
Ultimately, effective leadership requires balancing all four leadership C's – Coach, Cop, Commander, and Counselor. Each has its moment and purpose, but no single approach should dominate perpetually. By developing this balanced approach, you'll create an environment where accountability supports growth rather than generating fear.
In order to reach more people and to improve our positioning on all the podcasting and social media platforms, please subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform like Apple, Spotify or any other platform where you listen to 1st Lead U.
If you start differentiating in the way that you uphold the standards and rules in your company, you're going to lose control and respect inside that organization pretty quickly.
Announcer:Welcome to First Lead you, a podcast dedicated to building leaders, expanding their capacity, improving their self-awareness through emotional intelligence and developing deeper understanding of selfless leadership.
John Ballinger:Hello America and welcome to First Lead U where we believe selfless leadership is essential. America is suffering a leadership crisis. Self-awareness and emotional intelligence is the key to developing selfless leaders.
Announcer:Now here is personal growth coach John Ballinger.
John Ballinger:Hello leaders, my name is John Ballinger. With First Lead U, I'm here with my co-host, mr Douglas Ford. Hello Douglas, john, how are you today? Good, I am well, and we're going to talk about a tough C today, the cop.
Douglas Ford:Oh yeah.
John Ballinger:There needs to be order in a company, but you can't just walk around all day long being a cop, because pretty soon everybody's just going to be afraid just to see you coming. So we're going to be talking about that, but I want to start out with some unique background that I did on research.
John Ballinger:So cop is actually slang for policeman I'm sure they probably prefer policemen to cop I would think they probably do, but I started reason I'm like so policeman doesn't fit into our seats so we're gonna go, yeah, we're gonna go with cop, but the the uh, the slang for for policemen is cop, but police actually derived from the french, which means public order.
Douglas Ford:Interesting.
John Ballinger:It was first used in the 1700s and the word cop wasn't really used until the 1800s. But I thought you know public order. So, just thinking through people that I know that have been leaders that have a natural bend to be a cop, and they, they always want to be in charge. They want order, you know, in in their places. It also says that it's a person whose job it is to enforce the laws. That's a definition of policeman or slang cop. And uh, I would say that that's their job is to is law. They call it law enforcement. You're going into law enforcement, you are enforcing laws.
John Ballinger:the reality is and I know this from just growing up in and around the courtrooms and things like that the A lot of policemen actually don't know the law that they're enforcing.
John Ballinger:They may know things that they learn at the academy. You know, don't speed here's the speed limit but as far as the actual law itself and how it derived for them, of course they know you're not supposed to murder somebody or steal and things like that them, of course they know you're not supposed to murder somebody, you're still, and things like that. But on the legal side of it they're always talking about loopholes that the policemen didn't do? Chain of custody, did they read the miranda rights properly? Did they tell them that they couldn't talk until you know all those things and the the lawyers over on this side troubleshooting what the cop did, uh, so they can potentially get the person off, and you see that a lot on TV, but you should see that a lot. I saw it a lot growing up. Now what I found interesting is the personality trait of a leader that's a cop. What would you think that one of their natural bends would be?
Douglas Ford:Probably stern, very rules-oriented.
John Ballinger:They're control freaks.
Douglas Ford:I was going a little softer.
John Ballinger:Yeah, this actually came from the research that I did about leaders that have a cop mentality is they're control freaks. Now, what do we do as a citizen if we're driving down the road and the blue lights come on behind us?
Douglas Ford:We kind of freak out. Yeah, we're kind of like, oh crap. Or if you see a police officer and you're driving, it's like it doesn't matter. You may even be doing the speed limit. This morning I was coming through town and I was doing the speed limit because I knew where I was and I was just like, and then all of a sudden I saw a police officer in his car, kind of obscured. I was like, oh no, I immediately looked down to see what speed I was going. Well, I was under the speed limit I was supposed to be going, but still, it's like someone that's, uh, holding me accountable to what I'm supposed to be doing kind of freaks you out a little, did you?
John Ballinger:take your foot off the gas too at the same time probably a little bit yeah yeah, so think I want you to think about that.
John Ballinger:So there is a an awareness that we have in society for the blue lights. It's different than the red lights on a ambulance or a fire truck. You know we'll just naturally pull over, but the blue lights somehow constitute, especially if they're behind us, I've done something wrong and the and the policeman will get out of the car and walk up and kind of license and registration and a lot of times I'm like what did I do wrong? You know routine track. Oh, you've got a tell light out or whatever it is. You know the. Can we search your car? No, I don't want you to search my. Oh, you're one of those people. If there was nothing wrong, why don't you let us search your car? You know.
John Ballinger:So people in business, when there's someone that has a natural bend to be a cop, they're always jumpy because they don't know what's getting ready to happen, just like we are when the blue lights come on. That is not the way to lead your team. Are there times in your company that you need to have a law enforcement type of mentality? Absolutely. Should that be the prevalent way that you walk around every day? Absolutely not. It should not be. Your people Shouldn't be jumpy when you come around. They shouldn't act like you just flipped the blue lights on them. Now here's the sad part, and I'm just going to tell it like it is, mr ford, there are some leaders that love to lead like that. Oh yeah, they love when somebody's just jumping every time they walk in. They love the fear that they can put in people. I don't think it's healthy for a company.
Douglas Ford:Oh no, I would completely agree it's not healthy. It's not healthy for the company, it's not healthy for the team, it's not healthy for the sustainability of the organization. But you're right, I mean you mentioned earlier about just kind of the idea of law enforcement. But as I was looking through some things trying to prepare for this episode, as I was looking through some things trying to prepare for this episode, I found it says it means to ensure accountability and uphold standards, and I mean that to me is a nice, good visual mental picture of what somebody in the cop role should be for their organization or for their team. It's like, because accountability can be a good thing.
Douglas Ford:We quite often associate with a negative, but accountability holding people accountable for things can be very good because it can motivate. It can be motivating to be held accountable If you know you're going to be held accountable like I know I need to get this done because somebody is going to be asking me about it and it can also be kind of demotivating if you're not held accountable Again, just from a positive standpoint, like well, it doesn't matter if I do this or not, Nobody's going to check, and so that could have its own consequences. So I like that when I found it, I saw to ensure accountability and uphold standards. I like that when I found it, I saw to ensure accountability and uphold standards. I thought I liked that.
John Ballinger:Yeah, that's a, that's a uh, compliance, uh kind of mentality, which I think is totally appropriate in an organization. Again, it shouldn't be the prevalent position that you, as a leader, walk around in, but you it should be part of the process that you use from a leadership-style standpoint. So some other character traits of leaders that have a policeman or cop mentality they adopt a hierarchy structure more readily than other leaders, which means they like to operate almost from a dictator type of org chart I'm at the top, I make the rules, you obey the rules or I'm going to slap the cuffs on you kind of mentality. There's also an authoritarian type of style, and then the thing that I felt was, uh, as I started reflecting on it, I read this they're very transactional in nature, not relational, you know it's uh well, you almost have to be.
Douglas Ford:I mean, if that's, if that's the way you are, it's hard to be relational, and in that mindset, yeah, so very transactional.
John Ballinger:I do this, you do that. If you don't do this, I'm going to do this. It's very transactional in nature. That doesn't create relations or relationship with your team, and some leaders will you know that are cop type of uh, uh leadership styles. We'll think, well, I'm a leader, that I've got to keep order, I've got to keep law and order in place, or this place will be a zoo before I where I turn around and notice it. No, that's not true. Your people, they do need compliance, they do need structure, they need, there needs to be discipline. But I think you're going to find, if that's all you do, you're going to wear your people out and it's actually going to wear yourself out. Yeah, wear yourself out.
Douglas Ford:And we've talked about this, uh, in the first episode of chart, or we were talking through the four C's episode of chart where we were talking through the four C's. I don't know that we've mentioned them in this episode, but you have coach, cop, commander and counselor, and the reason we have all four of those in the C is because you really need to balance using all four of those, and, of course, we'll talk about the commander and the counselor in future episodes. But, yes, you can't be heavy cop with no coach. You can't be heavy cop without also being a commander or having some counselor mixed in there. So it really is a good mix.
Douglas Ford:But being a cop all the time is just going to keep everybody on edge. And if you're not kind of deploying that characteristic properly, in that you're ensuring accountability and upholding standards for a variety of things could be internal standards, could be external standards, could be regulatory standards, could be cultural standards then people are going to be indifferent to your leadership. Yeah, we take a break. We're going to take a break and we come back. We're going to be indifferent to your leadership.
John Ballinger:Yeah, we take a break. We're going to take a break and we come back. We're going to talk about some other traits uh, from a cop standpoint, that are can be detrimental how to work through learning, how not to operate every day from a cop mentality and, um hope, hopefully the leader that has that kind of natural bend realizes that they need to expand their leadership styles, not to be top only. We'll be back.
Douglas Ford:Hello First League Youth listeners, douglas Ford here. I want to take just a few seconds during this break to say thank you for spending a few moments with us as we discuss the challenges and opportunities of being a leader. We hope that in every episode you find some bit of information that will help you on your own personal leadership journey. In order to reach more people and to improve our positioning on all the podcasting and social media platforms, it's important that you subscribe to our podcast on your favorite podcasting platform, like Apple, spotify or any other platform where you listen to First Lead you. We would really appreciate you clicking on the subscribe button to help us reach more people and expand the message of First Lead you. And please take time to visit the First Lead you website. That's the number one S-T, the word lead and the letter U dot com. First Lead you dot com. Number one S-T, the word lead and the letter Ucom. I hope you have a great day as you continue to learn to first lead. Welcome back in to First Lead U.
Douglas Ford:Today we are talking about the COP role in leadership, and it is the second of the four characteristics that we have in our chart across it, which is charting a new leadership pathway, a new pathway for leadership, and we had previously. We've talked about coach and today we're talking about cop. We also have a commander and counselor that will be coming up. But one of the things that I feel like we can put as a positive spin on this because we talked a good bit about some of the pitfalls of being a cop in the first part of the podcast but when you have to act in that cop role, here's a few things that I think you can do and I've found through some research that can help put a positive spin on playing that cop role.
Douglas Ford:The first one is to set clear expectations. The second one is to be fair and consistent in how you deploy those expectations and hold people accountable. Second is to hold constructive conversations. Next is track performance metrics, so meaning that you're tracking how your team is doing and how individuals are doing. And then, finally, modeling integrity and I think that's a key to being in the cop role is you've got to play by the same rules that you're actually holding your team members to, no matter what, whether it has to be with vacation policies or whether it has to be with internal regulations and standards or external standards that you're trying to uphold. You've got to operate by the same rules that you're trying to hold them to. So, john, you wanted to bring to light some things that we could do that would help us operate even outside that cop role a little bit.
John Ballinger:Yeah, have you heard this before? I know a cop so I can get out of that ticket.
Douglas Ford:I've heard very similar statements.
John Ballinger:yes, I know so-and-so, that's in law enforcement. So let me make a call. Let me tell you why that's wrong in leadership. If you start differentiating in the way that you uphold the standards and rules in your company, you're going to lose control and respect inside that organization pretty quickly.
John Ballinger:One of the pitfalls that I've read about with someone that has a cop mentality of leadership is they will play favorites inside an organization and those favorites are played up to based on how well the other person for lack of a better term sucks up to the boss. I don't know if there's any other good way to put that in the. You know they, they brown nosing or whatever you want to call it, but cop top leadership leaders like people that do that Well. Your other people see that and it doesn't bode well for the company. So I would encourage the leader, if you have that bend, to be in a cop leadership type of style. Make sure that you are being consistent and fair across the board with how you handle people that are violating company rules and are not with upholding compliance, things of that nature, because pretty quickly you can you can lose respect where your team.
Douglas Ford:Yeah, it definitely goes to the integrity part that we were talking about just a few minutes ago, which is fair and consistent. I mean, I think that that list that I was able to find as part of the research is really, uh, key to being able to play the cop role without it being negative or damaging you personally or your team. Right, right uh.
John Ballinger:One of the things I asked myself too is what? What makes somebody have that natural bend and how can they get over that? And some of it could be. That's the leadership style they were exposed to as they were going up through the, the uh leadership, developing training ranks in the company. Their boss could have been a cop and that's just what they learned. And it doesn't mean it's right, it's just. You know, if that's how you learn, you think, well, that's how you're supposed to be. We're here to tell you it doesn't work, and especially post COVID, it doesn't work.
John Ballinger:A lot of the people that left uh companies and didn't return left because of that cop type of mentality leadership that was going on inside the organization. And they don't and they don't like that. So try to sit down and assess yourself. If this is how I was trained, what can I do in order to develop the other? C's? Um, it could be that's just. Their natural tendency is to operate from that position. Again, doesn't make it right and make it right, but it could be just that's just their natural tendency. Um, do they know that they need to lead differently?
John Ballinger:One of the things I often find going into organizations and talk to them is. I've heard people say well, nobody's ever told me I needed to do different. How are you'll be different on how I lead people. That's a challenge. If you're in a leadership position and you're you have responsibility over other leaders in the organization. You have to learn to have conversations with them.
John Ballinger:If you see that they're leading primarily from one of these styles, it's your responsibility as the ultimate leader of that organization to ensure that you can speak from all four of these styles and then coach, train, develop, counsel, cop those leaders into their own leadership style, which should encompass all four of those seats. What does that mean? As a leader in the ultimate leadership position, you've got to learn how to coach, and coaching could mean that you've got to develop them in other four C's the other three C's style of development. I want you as a leader, I want you to think through that, not just yourself, but one of the challenges that we've seen in corporate America is the leader is not developing the second tier leadership inside their organization. They're just kind of leaving it, leaving them their, their own devices or their excuse me, their own vices, or throwing them in the pool and see if they can swim, and that doesn't do any good to the team either.
Douglas Ford:No, absolutely.
Douglas Ford:We need to make sure that all four of the C's the coach, cop, commander and counselor are all kind of interactive inside you as a leader and working together, and obviously we're wanting the best aspects of those four things to come out.
Douglas Ford:They all have their pitfalls, they all have their negatives. You don't want to spend all your time in any one of them, but certain seasons could require you to be in one area more than another, but you need to then be able to balance that out, because you're not going to be in there 24-7, so to speak. There's going to be times, even within a season, where you may need to be a coach more than you need to be a cop, or you may need to be a counselor more than you need to be a commander, but regardless, there's still going to be times within a day, within a week, within a month, where you're going to need to be moving back and forth between all four of those, and so the more you can kind of balance that out, I think the better you serve your team, the better you serve yourself.
John Ballinger:I'm going to leave. I'm going to leave this podcast with five leadership character traits that a cop should embrace inside an organization. Not the ones we talked about, not the control thing, not the hierarchy, not the authoritarian or the transactional. These are the five that you need to embrace and when you hear these, I'm hoping that something triggers in your brain.
John Ballinger:Leadership from that position should be about service. It should be upholding the standards and the rules inside the organization. It should be about the ethics of the organization. It should be about a fair and balanced workplace and, finally, when you're doing all these things, it should be about building trust and rapport with your team, if you can do that, because we're not saying being a cop is bad at all. That's not what we're saying. We're saying that's one of the things that you have to learn to do, but use it from those traits that I just talked about, not from the hammer and nails authoritarian uh, you know the the hammer, the hammer nails and the hierarchy and the transactional. Don't do it from that position. Do it from these, from these positions, and you're going to see that that type of cop leadership is actually needed inside an organization.
Douglas Ford:Oh, absolutely, and I think you say that correctly, and each one of these characteristics that we say in the C's that a leader needs to have has got a bright side and a dark side, so to speak, and we're trying to help you understand what the dark side is on one case, but also here's how you operate more to the light side, because we all need to be working more toward the bright side, right? I mean, we've got plenty of other challenges that go on in the workplace. So, as a leader, as we're defining these roles, let's do them from the best possible position so that we can again benefit our team and then benefit ourselves.
John Ballinger:Yes, can I go over them one more time? Please do? That'd be great. Yeah, remember that in the organization when you have that cop hat that you need to wear that day. It's about service to your team. It's about upholding compliance inside the organization, about ethical conduct and making sure that you're leading from that position so you're upholding that everywhere else. It's about fair and balanced workplace, which all that together builds trust in the organization. So I want you to think about as as leaders am I doing that consistently in my organization? And as we wrap up this second C, mr Ford, with COP, our next C is going to be commander. We're going to be talking through that. But I want our leaders to remember in order to lead your team well, you must learn to first lead you. Thanks everyone, we'll see you next time.
